In this episode I’m interviewing my client Arielle DeHaw on overcoming perfectionism and committing to go all in in your business. Arielle coaches gifted coaches and service providers on how to get out of their own way, overcome self-doubt and imposter syndrome, and reach their potential. Perfectionists Getting Shit Done (aka PGSD) helped her overcome perfectionism and learn how to get shit done, and once she had that, everything came together.
We talk about what her journey looked like with getting out of her own way in her business, how Perfectionists Getting Shit Done (aka PGSD) has helped her with that, and specific things she’s learned in the program.
We also discuss one of Arielle’s biggest hesitations when she signed up for PGSD: What if I don’t actually do this and don’t make the most of PGSD? Because she had times before where she felt really hopeful about something she was going to invest in and then she didn’t follow through because of perfectionism. And we talk about how she’s been able to follow through with PGSD even though she was a person who didn’t follow through with programs before, and how that has paid off for her.
If this is a hesitation you can relate to, you’ll find this episode helpful. Tune in today.
Find the full episode transcript and show notes at samlaurabrown.com/episode495.
Featured in the Episode
- Arielle’s Instagram account: instagram.com/lightofarie
- Instagram: @perfectionismproject
Work With Me:
Enrollment for Perfectionists Getting Shit Done begins on Friday, 18 October and closes on Friday, 25 October at 11:59pm New York Time. If you’re ready to do the things you know you need to do and get your business off the ground, mark your calendar and get ready to sign up.
Sign up in the first 48 hours of enrollment and you will receive a bonus 1:1 Decision Support Call with Sam so you can confidently make any big business decisions that have been stopping you from creating momentum. Find out more and sign up today: samlaurabrown.com/pgsd.
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FULL EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
Introduction
Hi, and welcome to another episode of The Perfectionism Project, a podcast full of perfectionism advice for entrepreneurs. My name is Sam Laura Brown. I help entrepreneurs release their perfectionism handbrake so they can get out of their own way and build a fulfilling and profitable business. I’m the founder of the Perfectionists Getting Shit Done group coaching program, which is otherwise known as PGSD. And for even more perfectionism advice to help you with your business, you can follow me on Instagram @perfectionismproject.
Sam Laura Brown – Custom Intro
You are going to love this interview with one of my clients. One of our PGSDers, Arielle. So she is a coach, and she coaches gifted coaches and service providers on how to get out of their own way, how to overcome self doubt, imposter syndrome, and reach their potential and just really feel like they’re doing the thing they’re called to do. And she is the perfect person to be interviewing about PGSD perfectionism, showing up in your business, committing to your business. She has just shared so much in this interview about what her journey has looked like with getting out of her own way in her business, how PGSD has really helped her with that, including things she’s learned in the program, the coaching calls in the program. And we just share so many things in this episode that I just know you’re going to be having so many epiphanies about yourself, your perfectionism, your business.
And also, one thing that we talk about is, if you were thinking of signing up for pgsd, which is, by the way, if you don’t know, my productivity program for early stage perfectionist entrepreneurs who are ready to overcome perfectionism and start getting shit done in their business, you’re ready to start creating momentum, doing that without burning out and being able to bring together all of the knowledge you have, the potential you have, all of the hard work you’ve already put in, and actually have that begin paying off. That is what we teach you how to do in PGSD. It’s a lifetime access program. And in this interview, Arielle talks about how one of her biggest hesitations when she signed up for PGSD, was like, what if I don’t actually do this? What if I don’t make the most of pgsd? What if I don’t log in? Because she had had times before where she felt really hopeful about something that she was going to invest in, and then she signed up, and she was hoping that just making that investment would have her follow through, but because of the perfectionism, she didn’t follow through.
So we talk about how PGSD, how she’s been able to follow through with PGSD, even though she was the person who didn’t follow through with programs before, and how that has paid off so well in her business, for her financially, also just from going from feeling like struggling all the time, and getting nowhere to actually having a real business, working with high ticket clients, changing lives, and really just having the foundation for a business that can one day be an empire, and just something that makes such a big, remarkable, important impact on the world. So Arielle is going to be doing amazing things in the future. I just know it. And to get to hear her in this stage of her journey, sharing about how overcoming perfectionism and learning how to get shit done, how that was the thing that was missing for her, and once she had that, everything came together. You’re gonna love it. It’s gonna be so helpful for you.
So just so you know as well, Perfectionist Getting Shit Done. We’re only open for one week, and enrollment, this is our last one for the year. This is your last chance to be in PGSD for this year. So enrollment is closing at 11:59pm eastern time on the 25th of October. So you need to get yourself inside PGSD by that deadline. And if you are thinking about pgsd, or if you just don’t have momentum in your business, if you aren’t showing up the way you want to be, if you have momentum, but you keep burning yourself out, and it’s not sustainable. I really want you to listen to this episode in full and sign up for PGSD so we can help you and teach you how to overcome perfectionism and show up in your business, the process is simple. The support is invaluable. You have the coaching calls in pgsd, the group calls that we talk about in this interview. You’re also going to have, this is a new thing.
We’ve added to PGSD, three private coaching calls with a PGSD coach. You have our Productivity Process. You have personal feedback. You have accountability. You have ask a coach to anonymously ask questions. There is so much support, so much accountability to help you follow through, to help you learn how to implement to help you trust yourself. This is an essential investment for your business. This is an essential skill that you need to have to be able to build a successful business. So if you’re just feeling like I’m at that point, which is where Arielle was when she signed up, like I either need to just give up on this business or finally go all in, listen to this episode and join us inside PGSD, so you can go to samlaurabrown.com/pgsd, to sign up. And I hope you enjoy this interview with PGSDer Arielle.
Sam Laura Brown (Start of Podcast episode)
Welcome to the podcast. Arielle, do you want to share a little bit about your business journey and perfectionism? Like, when did you realize you’re a perfectionist and that that was coming up for you in your business?
Arielle
Yes, and loaded question, but it’s very funny to me, because I think I’ve always known I was a perfectionist, but I never knew it was going to be something that was going to be a problem, like in job interviews, I remember they’d say, like, what’s your biggest weakness? And I’d kind of like, proudly say, like, Oh yeah, I’m a bit of a perfectionist. Like, everything I submit to you is going to be perfect. I’m going to double check my work a bunch of times. And I thought it was a very good thing. I kind of was, like, secretly proud of it. But the moment I realized it was a problem was not until I got into entrepreneurship, and when I started realizing I was just like, working and working and working and I wasn’t actually producing any results. And for a while, I thought that was fine, because I’m like, Oh, well, I’m just getting things really set up and organized, and it’s, you know, eventually going to be great, but then, you know, weeks turn into months, and months turn into me not making money or even having an offer, and then I realized it was a problem.
Sam Laura Brown
Yeah, what did some of that setting up and organizing look like for you? Because I know so many perfectionists get stuck with things like they need a business card, or the branding, or like, things like that. What was it for you?
Arielle
All of them, it’s it’s wild to me how many of these things I decided I needed to have set up before I started my own business. I was also supporting a friend with his business, and I came in as, kind of like a late co founder, and the very first thing I made us do was create business cards. And like no one, no one really needs business cards today’s day and age. And I remember I was on Canva late into the night designing the most beautiful, like beautiful gift business cards and having them printed on the most perfect paper. So, like, that’s the first move I made with his business, with my own business. It. I think as perfectionists, we want to work on things that we feel the most comfortable with and the things that comfortable with and the things that we think we’re good at. So for me, that was like branding. And so I was like finding the right colors, the right brand name, the right font for my logo, the right domain, like, to the extent that I was testing how my domain was gonna look in the URL code, like with the little icon that I was designing for my brand, like every set of these things I was exploring, like anything, but actually figuring out how I was going to make money.
Sam Laura Brown
Yeah, it’s so common for perfectionists, and unfortunately, so many perfectionists as well end up investing 10s of 1000s of dollars into that setup stuff. And yeah, it’s just we love the comfort of feeling like we have that perfect start and we’ve got all our ducks in a row. So for you with perfectionism, you mentioned about like, realizing that that was an issue, like it was stopping you from actually being able to make money and have an actual business. So before pgsd, were there any things that you were trying to do about that or, like, how did signing up for pgsd fit in with realizing about perfectionism and that being the thing that was stopping your business from growing?
Arielle
Really, like, the first two hour training I did of yours, it completely opened my eyes to everything that was wrong. Like it was, like, the two hours I was, like, I just got my entire investments back in this program, because it just like, I realized how I was thinking about things the wrong way. And like, the idea of a six for this growth mindset, for me, was the, the biggest eye opener. But yeah, before the program, like, for the first three, four, maybe, like five months of having a business, I didn’t realize. I didn’t really realize it was perfectionism getting in my way. I kind of just kept justifying that. Like, I just needed to have things a little bit more set up, and I needed to take one more social media marketing course and just, like, figure out a niche a little bit better. Or, like, I my brain had a lot of excuses for why I wasn’t actually moving forward or making money. But then like, things came to a breaking point right before you opened your enrollment, and like the universe, I feel like brought me your program because I know I followed you like years before on Instagram.
I had like because I identified as a perfectionist, but I didn’t take like, I didn’t look look into your account. I didn’t know what you did. I didn’t know you helped entrepreneurs, and I just followed at some point. And then, I swear, I didn’t see anything from you for like, two or three years, and then I was reaching a breaking point where I was like, I need to, like, be all in on this business, or I need to step away, because it was too many months of not making any money. My bank account was, like, drying up. I quit my corporate job to pursue entrepreneurship, and I was realizing, like, it’s now, it’s now or never, like I need to figure this out, or I need to step back and go get another job. And then the moment that happened, your like, Instagram ad started ads, but like, your stories or something started popping up. That enrollment was opening for this program. Like, perfectionist getting shit done. I was like. Like, Oh, I need to get shit done. I’m in the moment where I’m like, I absolutely must get shit done.
And I joined, like, very blindly. It’s funny, because I know most people, or many people, listen to your podcast before they join. I know I listened to like, so it’s just so I can get a feel for your vibe. But I joined because I was like, This just feels absolutely like the thing I need in this moment. And it was like that first training where, like we’re talking about, or you’re speaking about the idea of, like, you have to be bad at something, and you’re willing to be bad at it in order to get good at it. Whereas, like, the whole time of my business, I was trying to make sure everything was good before I would move forward with it. And I realized that’d be in that cycle forever if I didn’t change that attitude. So like, that was, like the foundational click in my brain. But then obviously having information and implementing it is they’re two different things. So it’s like, it did take the month of the coaching calls and, like, hearing other people go through the same process to actually start to shift the way I was working. But it was still that first training that I feel like my brain like a light bulb went off.
Sam Laura Brown
Yeah, I love that. Did you have any I don’t know if you remember, it was about a year ago from memory that you signed up. Did you have any hesitations with signing up? Because a lot of people will have a hesitation of, like, Will I fit in, or is this for me? Like, those kind of thoughts. Did you have any of those when you were signing up for the program? Or, you’re like, I’m in like, what was that like for you?
Arielle
I was very concerned that I was going to sign up and then not touch it, because I’ve done that for a bunch of courses in the past. And I think many of us, and you like, it becomes, actually very it’s kind of sad, because you kind of like, lose faith in yourself to make investments like this. Because you’re, like, you feel all that excitement and anticipation of, like, oh yeah, this is going to be the thing that changes it, and then you don’t touch it, or, like, you finish, like, the first video or second video, and then you don’t continue. So I remember I had, like, I spoke with someone on your team, and I was I told them that concern, the thing that made me feel a lot better was that there was live calls, because I knew if I, like, made that level of investment and there were live calls happening, I would show up to those calls.
And truthfully, aside from, like, the initial power planning training, I still haven’t done the other videos inside your program. Like, and it actually matter, because just coming to the live training, I already got so much, and I have it on myagenda, and maybe someday I’ll go back to those trainings, but I actually did not need them. Like, just the live calls every week and having that accountability of knowing, like, the same group of people were going to be there, and, like, you get to know people in the community like that ended up solving it for me. But yeah, my biggest hesitation was definitely that I was going to buy it and then I would never open the program again.
Sam Laura Brown
Yeah, like you said, it becomes like, sad in a way that because of that like, self trust and having low self trust when we’re in that perfectionist mindset, that we’ll have that excitement of like, this could be the thing, and then if we don’t follow through with it, and typically, like, because pgsd helps you as a perfectionist, learn how to implement like, we address the actual things that have stopped you from doing other programs and things like that, but other programs won’t include that, and they just assume you know how to get shit done. And so it then becomes this association of, like, I feel really excited and hopeful, and that’s had a bad outcome, so I shouldn’t trust the excitement and the hope, yeah, and that is sad that it, it becomes like that, and then it is being willing to take that leap of like, as you said, being like, I’m really, really scared that I won’t ever touch this, but I also really, really, really need to get shit done, and so I’m willing to take that bet on myself that this can be different, and it’s paid off massively for you doing that, and I love that as well, with the coaching calls.
And I want to talk with you about some of the coaching calls, because I’ve coached you quite a few times on your business, and which I love doing. And some PGSDers go to all the coaching calls. Some go to a few just when they need it. Others never go on the coaching calls and just watch the trainings and the replays of the coaching calls. And they have amazing transformation. So all of this to say, you never have to, like, have in your mental load. I should go back and do that. Like, just doing the live calls is perfect. And you post in the forum too, in pgsd, so like, golden, beautiful. So do you want to just tell me what it was like for you when you signed up for pgsd? You mentioned about a few of the early epiphanies, but like, in terms of results in your business, starting to get shit done, starting to create momentum? What was that like for you? I know you had with your social media quite a big breakthrough. But do you want to just walk me through like the beginning of pgsd and what changed for you when you started to do the work?
Arielle
Sure, and I’ll also speak to what you said. Yeah, everyone’s transformation can come in different ways. Like for me, it was attending those calls, but I know that there’s others in the group who don’t attend and who still like post in the forum and seem like they’re doing awesome. So everyone builds. In their own routine, in their own way. Oh gosh, yeah, it’s it’s wild to me that it was a year ago, because so much has happened since that time, and I feel like I’ve grown like 10, like so much as a human. I can’t even contemplate it. But yeah, when I joined, I I think, like the last I had like four or five, and I was at a different business when I joined, which is a whole other story, which we can talk about. But I was running my solo travel business at that moment, and my Instagram page, I think I had like, eight or nine posts, and then the most recent post was, like, this beautiful video, I truly think I spent two or three weeks trading, and it was like the one I was planning to pin to the top that’s like, you know, here who, here’s who I am, here’s who I help. Here’s how I do it. Here’s my like sales page.
And that’s all I really do my social media. And that video, so many people complimented it. It did not bring me a single sale. For people who are thinking of making a project based video before they really kept and I think the biggest thing that came in, that happened for me when I came in was I did the marketing. What is it called the marketing workshop that you have inside.
Sam Laura Brown
Yeah, the align marketing workshop that we have at PGSD, yeah.
Arielle
And so I took the 100 day challenge of, like, posting every day to my Instagram. And something I loved about that as well is that you’ve had equipment contract as part of it. And so I created, like, this is like the first fight. Like I committed to things like this so many times, but I naturally thought through, oh, like, in five days or 10 days or 20 days, I wouldn’t want to continue like, I always just made the commitment off of the feeling of like hopefulness and like motivation, but never planned for like the law that would obviously naturally come after you get off motivation. So that was even a big moment. Is like signing that commitment contract for that 100 day challenge and saying, like, I am going to continue posting every single day even if I’m questioning whether this is the right business for me, even if, because I kind of knew what had set me back in the past. Like, for one I was always questioning, like, do I want to start a travel business or a personal development business?
And I decided for that 100 day challenge, like, every time I question that, I’m just going to post anyway about the travel business. Like, I’m committing to the travel business, and I’m also going to probably, is this working and I got enough views, and I just kind of pre addressed that in its commitment contract. And was, like, regardless of views, I’m going to keep posting for 100 days. I’m probably going to be sick one of these days. I’m going to post a quote post or something quick that day, because, like, all these things are foreseeable, but previously, I never, kind of prepared for them. I was just like, off living off this, like, perfectionist fantasy of how it was going to all be so lovely, and so doing that commitment contract was a really big deal, and I felt a shift in energy versus things I tried to commit to in the past, because I was pre addressing those like barriers that would come up before they came up, and then, yeah, as you know, I, with that challenge, saw like crazy results, like, I think it was, like, my 40th or 50th video went completely viral.
I had like over a million views, and brought me like 2000 followers to my solo travel business, which was like, an absolutely unfathomable result for me the two months before. Yeah, and I did have some foundational social media skills going in. But the thing is, I was trying to, like, perfect them behind the scenes, and what you taught me was like, No, you’re going to get better at posting by posting, because then people are gonna you’re gonna see the engagement. You’re gonna see what resonates, what feels good in my body to put out there, versus what doesn’t. So I stopped taking social media courses behind the scenes or YouTubing, how to have good hooks. I started practicing it every single day with a video, and then, yeah, like, huge results on social media,
Sam Laura Brown
Amazing. And it’s, I love what you said. It was like the 40th or 50th video, is that right that you posted? Because, and I remember in that training we went through like, this is the point, like, the tipping point, essentially, where you will begin to get that momentum and traction, and how it’s after our perfectionist brain wants it to be like, there’s this dip you’re going to go through where you will need to persist and keep showing up, even when it doesn’t feel like it’s working, to be able to pop out the other side and have a viral reel and all that, all of that that comes that, I think we like to think, like, I’ll post one, and that’ll be it. I’ll post maybe five, and if it hasn’t happened within the first five, but it really is learning how to, as a perfectionist, get yourself to show up for that long without it burning you out, without it being so taxing, but to be able to show up and get to that point, because that compound effect does work, it does begin to pay off, Like just from showing up, sharing your ideas, publicly, being willing to be bad at it, all of that, but it doesn’t happen after, like, posting for a week.
So that’s a big thing for perfectionist because we love feeling good at things. We love feeling successful. We hate looking especially publicly, if other people can see the social media, like our friends and family, we hate looking like. Are failing, especially most of the people that I help have come from successful corporate careers, successful studies, like they haven’t really failed at things and being the person in their group who has been failing. So I love that you mentioned about, like, how many videos it took. And in the scheme of things, it’s way quicker to do that than to pose for a week or perfect, spend three weeks perfecting a post and then it doesn’t bring in any sales or any momentum, and then maybe get deflated, have a few weeks off and then try again and just be in that cycle is so much longer and burns us out so much more.
Arielle
Yeah, and I feel like, as perfectionists, we also like we expect results too soon, sometimes, because we have so much mental energy that goes into creating, like, the first five posts, so it feels like you’ve been spending months and so many hours on those five posts. But someone who’s not a perfectionist, they created those five posts very quickly and easily, and they’re not attracting results because they know they’ve only spent a couple hours on Instagram so far, and technically, we’ve also only spent a couple of hours on Instagram so far, it was like 25 hours contemplating the people pleasing and the feels, feels big, but like you’ve only created five posts, you cannot expect a result after that, and most people wouldn’t just even though it took you 25 hours of like work, like inner work and mental work to find the courage to post, you also were playing with an external like, like, it’s not just above that. It’s also like, Okay, now we have to play the external Instagram game. Like, it’s gonna take more than five posts for people to start finding you.
Sam Laura Brown
100% and it’s so, yeah, it’s so helpful to just point that out and notice that, because it can create this, like, perfectionist entitlement that I talk about, where we feel like, well, I’ve put in so much hard work when a lot of that hard work that we think we should be paying off by now, and then we feel behind it’s like a lot of that hard work was the perfectionist mental drama. That’s why it felt really hard. It wasn’t the actual like the work. The hard part was the perfectionism, and that doesn’t entitle you to the result. So I love that you pointed that out. That was amazing. So tell me then, like, with your business, and then once that happened, and you mentioned about, like, an evolution of your business and things like that, like, what was the journey for you after that, I’ve coached you on, like, what to like, basically, like, your business model, pricing, different things like that, what to offer. But what was that journey? How did that begin to unfold for you? Once you had that momentum, you were showing up, you weren’t perfecting things anymore. What happened next?
Arielle
I wouldn’t say I wasn’t perfecting things anymore, like, I think I learned my lessons around perfectionism, first on social media, and then the rest of my business has followed, and it’s still like, think I’m forever going to be catching myself as a imperfectionism and then catching myself jumping out of it. It’s actually, it’s such a side note. But someone who I know, who was like a multi seven figure business owner, I was on her sales page today, and after her sales video played like a loom, recording came up that was like a private voice, know, from her client or something. And it’s like I was thinking, like, how me as a perfectionist, I never would have allowed that to happen, whereas, like, she’s making multi seven figures, it doesn’t matter. So I’m always going to have to be catching myself in perfectionism. It’s not going to end.
Sam Laura Brown
And also the just on that, that there’s like, and this is part of like, the as a perfectionist. There’s like overcoming perfectionism in the early stages and how that looks. And then there’s part of the work as a perfectionist as your business grows to six figures, multiple six figures, seven figures, it’s like developing the emotional capacity to not have to review everything. Like she probably didn’t review it. It’s not that she’s missed it, and being like, it’s fine, maybe, but there’s a good chance she was just like, I’ve delegated that out. I don’t need to check everything because I’m busy doing other things. And it does take a certain emotional capacity and way of thinking to not have to check every little thing. Because, as you said, like it doesn’t matter, like it’s not a needle mover to have that not be in the video, but it can feel really vulnerable to us as perfectionists to have like imperfect work out in the in the world that people can judge us for and all of that. So yeah, so you had your social media was having momentum. So what happened after that?
Arielle
It was a better external thing that helped me actually push to getting my first sales. I wouldn’t necessarily say it’s part of the program, but I booked myself a ticket, like a one way ticket to Mexico. And I told myself, like I need to fund this journey, so I need to start making sales in my business. And I knew that would help me to start taking messy action, because I then I had been testing with some clients at that point, but I hadn’t actually launched, like, a paid program, and but now, at this point, I had some testimonials from those who I’ve been helping for free. And I was like, okay, something needs to happen here. So I booked that ticket, kind of thinking, this will be the thing. And it’s wild how resourceful your brain can get when you actually set yourself a deadline and actually, like. Decide that, like, I am making sales now, because even though I’d had this business now for like, eight months or something, I was like, Oh, I’ll run a free training on safety for solo travelers, and then I’ll sell my program after that.
Whereas previously, I really did not have any kind of sales funnel in place, even though I went to business school, even though I had all the information to know that, like, no one’s gonna buy my big package off of my Instagram page. I did have to kind of commit. And I do think seeing others in the program and like how well we’re making sales and committing as well, it was a big thing. But yeah, I committed, like, I’m getting all that plane to Mexico, and so I’m gonna make sales before that happens, but I needed to in order to fund that trip. And so, yeah, I hosted that, like, free training, and I had like 18 people come because I had been doing all this work on social media, and I made three sales off of that initial, like 18 that came through my free training. And that was huge for me, because previous to that, I had been, like, a year into my business, I hadn’t made any money.
So, yeah, that was that was a really big win. And another big thing I took from the program is I didn’t pre create that program. Like I was previously thinking, Oh, to sell a program, I have to first, like, create all the modules and have it all pre recorded. And I realized, like, well, I can actually set an outline, and then I can deliver the training live, and I can also develop, like, the content for the training live as I go through it. And so it was, like a lot of self trust that took but it ended up working out really well. And yeah, that was, like a huge breakthrough.
Sam Laura Brown
Amazing, just what you were saying about commitment, because this is part of it too for perfectionists, with building a business that it’s like that fear of going all in and then it being a waste of effort or failing, or things like that. So we end up spending so much time thinking about it and wanting to be successful, but not being fully committed. And for most entrepreneurs who become successful, there’s one, if not many, points where they uplevel their commitment. And so when you were saying that about being like, well, I’m making money now, like, I’m making sales, and like, shifting from it being this hobby kind of approach to actually being a real business like this, I’m going to make sales. I’m committed to making this happen. I had that at many points with my business, and one of them, I remember that I was, like, it was feeling so optional to make money because I had a part time job that was my full income. Like I didn’t need any money from the business, so it was okay if I got in my way. It was okay if I wasn’t putting myself out there.
And then I was like, No, I’m actually going to put money aside, as if I’m paying for, like, paying myself from the business. I think it was like $400 every week, like I’m paying myself even though I don’t need that money to live or for anything. But I’m actually, like, getting to take myself a wage, so to speak, as like a symbolic like this business has to make money because it is required to do that to be able to support me. Like, really starting to treat it like a real business, like a job like this isn’t just an optional, like, okay, it’s nice if it makes money, but it doesn’t have to. So I love that you share that, because, yeah, that’s something we help with as well. Just like having that community where everyone’s doing it, but being able to have, whether it’s a trip that you’re doing or like you want to build a pool, or whatever it is that you’re like, I just want to have, like, this business is making money now, and so from that place, what can I do? Is so powerful. So thank you so much for sharing that piece of it as well. So then do you want to share a bit about the coaching that you’ve got on? Because I think maybe now would be a good time to talk about it like I’ve coached you on having a membership and, like, what the pricing would be like, just a few different things about what kind of business model to have and where to go. So do you want to share anything about that?
Arielle
Yes, I’d love to. And just, I have to just add to your previous point quickly about the energy thing, because I we should at least come back to this, because I think that’s one of the biggest things I’ve gained from the program. Is before I was unwilling to put energy towards something, if I didn’t feel confident it was the right thing to put energy towards, or if even, like, my energy wasn’t good that day. I was like, oh, it’s not worth working. If I’m my energy is not perfect. And those were, like, two of the biggest takeaways I’ve had for perfection, setting shit done. It’s just realizing that it’s safe to put my energy into something, even if I don’t know what’s going to work, because I’m always going to get information like that step and fully putting my energy in is going to be one. Number one, the thing that makes it work. And number two, if it doesn’t work exactly how I’m anticipating, it’s going to be the thing that gets them to the next step. So I just have to call that out for the person who notices they don’t want to put their energy in a place unless they know it’s going to be perfect, because that’s like, you have to go all in with your energy or it will not work.
Sam Laura Brown
Yeah, yeah. And it can feel so scary to do, but it is a requirement. It’s not an optional, because we’re like, oh, once it’s successful, then I’ll go all in. It’s like, well, it’s not going to be successful first. Like, we have to be the one who’s willing to put in the energy the same way that we do at university or college, where we’re willing to invest years of energy into it before we ever make a cent or have a job. So it’s like treating the business with that same approach. So in terms of, like having the membership, and then I can’t remember exactly what it was, but basically, you came to a coaching call and you’re like, I think I want to do this. And I was like, I don’t know if that’s the best approach.
Arielle
So at this point, I’d switched from my travel business to more of my my coaching, personal development, business coaching, mindset coaching, five and it’s, it’s funny, because it’s like, basically what I had had read the Apple Sales that were like, I think we should actually speak to maybe the most recent one was happening, because I think it’s actually more relevant, but it’s like, I made a couple of, like, higher ticket sales, or, like, one on one coaching sales, and then I started to question things like, Okay, now what like, should I launch a membership or a program? So like, something was working, like I was making sales one on one, and it was working, and I have evidence of that. And also my audience was pretty small, and then my brain was like, Okay, let’s come up with, like, a whole new challenge membership, or like group program. So if it’s okay, I feel like that’s like the most impactful you coached me on this number of times, I feel like that’s the biggest one to speak about.
Sam Laura Brown
Yeah, for sure, because I coach you on, I remember, like, the ever it’s kind of like the evolution of it, because on that call, we were talking about how a few months before you’d been, like, I don’t know if I can even, like, sell the membership and things like that, and then, like, just how much your belief in just a few months and like, your self image had grown was amazing. But do you want to share a bit more about that experience, like, either the experience of being coached, or like, what that coaching was, it helped you to not reinvent the wheel or to go back to the drawing board, but to actually keep letting yourself succeed.
Arielle
And yeah, I’m trying to think exactly how we coached on the membership the first time. Basically, I think the short is that I was launching this personal development business. The first iteration I was going to launch was, like, some kind of $30 a month membership, and you encouraged me to do one on one coaching instead, which it’s so wild to me that we think it’s smart to go launch a $30 a month membership when, like, you like, I don’t know, we get to be so, like, idealistic.We’re picturing how, like, we’re gonna find 100 new people to sign up every month when our Instagram, like, I had like, 1500 followers on that account. Like, like, the math did not math in any way, shape or form. So I was very thankful that you did not like the math is not math. Like, it’s and it’s just like, for some reason we get these like, it’s, again, I think they’re like, kind of perfectionist fantasies. And we picture how, like, oh yeah, then I’ll start creating viral content and start getting people into my membership. Like it, truly it did not make sense, and it was really like a defense mechanism for me to not have to charge a higher price, because I was afraid of holding that container for somebody and disappointing somebody.
So I, my brain, disguised it as, like, this great little membership. But truly it was like I was, I was terrified of holding a one on one container, and I was afraid of letting that person down, and that’s where that came from. And then, yeah, as you know, you gave me the advice to go with one on one. I think I’m now remembering how this all happened. And I did sign from one on one, and things started going really well with those clients. And then I came to you, and I was like, Okay, I think I should do a group program. And again, you were like, Wait, it’s your one on one. It’s working. And it’s like, again, like my brain was, it’s like self sabotage, like it’s secret self sabotage, but like, I finally found something that was working after like, more than a year in business at this point, which was finally, for the first time, bringing in consistent money that was actually going to sustain my lifestyle, and my brain was, like, uncomfortable with that success, or, like, uncomfortable with things being easy and they’re not being this big problem to solve.
So it’s like, oh, let’s watch a group program, because that’s going to require me to have, like, like, you know, work a whole lot harder. I’m going to feel productive because I’m working on something rather than just being comfortable with the fact that things are working. And so, yeah, again, you put so yeah, again, you pushed me to kind of stick with the one on one. And I actually have to keep reminding myself of this, because I keep watching to launch a group program. And I do really feel that right now. I’m excited to stick with one on one. Another mentor actually, just like I kind of ran this by him, and he was like, Yes, I think one on one right now, like everything it’s pointing to that it’s working. So yeah, but I think more or less, yeah.
Sam Laura Brown
And I think like, so with the initial coaching, when you came to me and you’re like, I want to start a membership, and just for those who are listening, who are like, I’m not a coach, I don’t want to do a membership, or any of this, what I’m doing when I’m coaching as well is I’m looking at the thinking behind, like, the decision making process, and also considering, like, how to grow a business, and all these different things as well. But I could sense that you wanted to do one on one, but you were scared, and that your brain, as you said, was saying, like, oh, but if I do like, and you’re like, I love group environments and like, you had all these great reasons for like, I’d love to do this membership. One of them was. I think I could sell it easily. I know like, seven people who would like to probably sign up and, like, all of this. And really it was like, I could feel under it.
And I think maybe some later coaching on a different call was about, like, what do you do if you do have one on one clients and you have, like, a week where you’re just not in great energy and, like, this kind of, like, fear of the disappointing them, or, like, if I’m not imperfect energy all the time, like, Could I actually help them? So it was kind of like those perfectionist fears that were around doing the one on one coaching, because it does feel more vulnerable to be like, I will work with you specifically, and you will pay me a larger amount of money, and I will help you get this result. It’s easy to be like, join my group, and we have lots of fun, and it’s $30 a month, and like, in terms of the pressure we put on ourselves to deliver it can feel easier to do it that way. So I just encouraged you to do what I could tell you knew made sense to do, but was scared to do.
And then the same when it came to the decision about the group that you had just figured out something that was really working, like a success formula for yourself and your business. And you’re like, Well, I just got this client, and, you know, I signed them. I think was it from posting on stories? It like, wasn’t this, like, big thing you had to do. It was like, I just posted on stories, someone signed up. I was like, well, could you just keep doing that? And it’s like, uh, like, it feels so uncomfortable, I think, particularly after a period where you’re struggling to build the business and to feel successful. Then when the success comes, especially when it comes easily, which is my favorite kind, and also the most uncomfortable for us, that we’re like, Oh no, that was too easy. Let me do. I think you’re like, maybe I should do a masterclass, or maybe I should do this and, like, this whole thing is like, Oh, you could just keep signing one among clients from stories.
Arielle
Which is what I’ve continued to do, and has worked. And also, it’s funny, the perfect energy thing, because just Monday, like, a few days ago, I was in, like, one of the worst energies I think I’ve been in since I started with this client. Like, I really, I honestly, I almost considered canceling the call, but I like, felt into my intuition, and I was like, I should keep the call. And even though I didn’t really feel like I had that much energy to hold space, I was like, I think I have enough capacity. Like I I felt into my body, and I think I can hold the call and my client and I really need to show up that day, so I was really glad I made that choice. And she also sent me a voice note the next day, and was like, thank you so much for yesterday’s call, and I never thought about their feedback, but like, I felt like I was not in some like, good energy at all, and like I could hardly hold the space. Like I was like, I just met the bare minimum requirements as a coach on Monday, and she sent me a voice on a Tuesday, and was like, that was, like, a really helpful call for me. It was like, you really held space for me. Thank you so much. Like, like, she really complimented me and didn’t she didn’t realize I didn’t feel like I was at my best. And it’s like, so powerful when we make it more about the other person, not about ourselves. And I know that’s something that you told me.
Sam Laura Brown
And bringing it back as well, to like the social media, and being willing to like, show up and be bad at it and do all of that that like, the reason I have nearly 500 podcast episodes is because I let myself record bad episodes, and I set it up in a way that, like, mentally it felt easier to do that and I wasn’t as a bigger perfectionist about it, that I did more regular episodes and things like that. But when people started giving me the best feedback about the episodes I thought were the worst, it started to rewire that misconception I had, that my perception about what’s perfect and what’s not is the accurate perception, or what’s helpful or what’s valuable. And it started to, like, retrain my brain.
Arielle
Yeah. I said I was probably more quiet on this call and I wasn’t giving as much like..
Sam Laura Brown
Yeah, you probably did great listening.
Arielle
I would probably have been an amazing listener, and that’s what she needed in that moment. And I think that’s like, the best feedback I’ve ever seen on a call. So it’s probably the exact same thing. It’s like, what I thought wasn’t a great call for me, or I was perceiving as like me not being in great energy actually ended up being super helpful for the other person.
Sam Laura Brown
Yeah, and if we only create in private or like, we don’t put ourselves in that situation to even, like, test our theory that we have to be in perfect energy all the time, or we have to feel like, for me, on a podcast episode, the episodes I’ve had the best feedback about I’m like, I have no idea what I was saying. I feel like I went on a million tangents. I felt so unclear the whole time after I had all this mental drama. But I was like, I’ll just publish it, a new one’s coming out soon. Feel like, oh my god, that spoke to me so much. It was exactly what I need. I’m like, okay, cool. Well, like, that’s how I now as well. I’m able to show up and do it when I’m not in my best energy. Because I’m often not in my best energy, sometimes I am. A lot I’m not. And just having that opportunity that came from putting myself out there, showing up, like overcoming the perfectionism so I could do that has helped to just help my brain see that I’m not the best judge of what’s helpful. And I love that you have that experience with your client, so that when you next time you have a day like that, you’re like, well, my clients actually find calls when I’m in this mood really helpful. So even though it doesn’t feel great to me, they love it.
Arielle
It builds so much self trust to also show up for yourself when you don’t feel like you’re in that energy and then still get something done, like I was so proud of myself for not canceling that call after it was done, like I was it just like, I was like, wow, I really showed up for myself there and, like, came through for myself. I completely agree. And then even kind of on the same note with social media or your podcast episodes, like the number of people who will talk about, like, the moment they went viral on social media now that it’s a goal as a business owner, but like, I have seen so many people talk about, like, I just posted this random TikTok video. Almost didn’t post it like it really didn’t feel like it was that special way back then. But, you know, I just posted it anyway, and that’s the video that blew up their account in their business. So when I’m like, hesitating on posting something or sending a message or moving forward or something, it’s like, it could be that moment, like you don’t know any moment could be.
So it’s like, I’m not gonna let my fear of someone perceiving this as imperfect take away from the fact that this could be the post. Like, this could be the big thing. What’s the worst that’s gonna happen for me posting it? Oh, someone thinks that, oh, the editing wasn’t that great, or my message wasn’t that clear. What’s the best that could happen? It could blow up my account. Like, the the possible, the possibilities always outweigh those consequences, which really does exist in our mind and don’t even really exist in like, there’s actually no, no one’s gonna message me. And be like, like, you know, this was a bad well, then maybe they will if I got really big, but in the in the meantime, I like how they smell. No one’s gonna message you’d be like, That was a bad video. I didn’t like, she shouldn’t have posted it. Like, no one does that, really, until you go viral anyway.
Sam Laura Brown
Yeah, and it’s just like, our like, when we think about, and this is such a big shift to make as well that it sounds like you have definitely made that when we’re thinking about, like, doing a perfect video, like you mentioned the one that you spent a few weeks doing of like, who I am and who I help, and all of that to pin to your profile. That we’re thinking about us, how we’re being perceived, if we look good, if we sound good, if it’s gonna work, and all these things, we’re not thinking about them. And so even though it meets certain criteria, we have that criteria actually isn’t the same, typically, as what is required to have something be successful on social media or successful as an offer. And we’re like, I have to feel clear. If I don’t feel clear, then it’s not going to work.
When it’s like, Well, that isn’t actually the criteria. How clear you feel on your niche, on your messaging, that isn’t actually the criteria for making sales, like your feelings and perceptions of your own clarity is. And I’ve had so many times like I was sharing in the PGSD call the other week, I was like, I just realized I’m a business coach. And Felicity was like, Yeah, I like, you’re my business coach. I was like, Yeah, but like, it’s clear to everyone else, but it hadn’t been cleared to me because I’d like, gone through so many evolutions of my own niche. I didn’t start as a business coach, I didn’t know as a perfectionist when I started my business. So it’s gone through many evolutions, but like, I have been clear to others when I haven’t felt clear myself. So it’s just like, beginning to, like, untangle how our perfectionist brain thinks it’s the best judge of certain things that is actually like, either it doesn’t have the correct information about or is just like off the mark about so love that.
Arielle
It’s like, I look at that video, it was very, actually selfish of me to spend three weeks creating a video like it was nothing. It was not serving the person I was trying to help whatsoever. It was like serving my own ego and, like, my own sense of security. But it was not like the person who needed to hear from me, like, who was scared about taking their solo trip for that business, like she did not need all the fancy editing and all that she needed me to, like, just grab my iPhone and be like, I know you have a dream on your heart to go on this trip, and I’m going to help you do it. And buh buh buh and I could have recorded it in five minutes, and it could have posted it, and that would have been probably more helpful to that person, because it would have been more authentic, and I would have had then three weeks of extra time to do something else for my business or for that person. Like, it made no sense to spend that time on that video, but like, my my braided moment did, like, I’m not like, making my past self wrong, like I am so proud of all the work I’ve done to get here.
Sam Laura Brown
Yeah, it really is, like, it just feels safest to do that, and particularly when we’ve had those habits in school or in a job, and then it’s being rewarded that it just feels like, Oh no, like, what I need to perfect things and like, have it all together, and it’s so freeing to begin not thinking that way and to actually see like the unpolished version of you and your work can actually perform the best like that to me, has just felt like such a gift when I started realizing that, and has created so much freedom for me and self trust.
Arielle
Yeah, it’s so true for you. Because I know all of us feel that when you just start speaking off the cuff on your episodes or on the coaching calls, all of us, especially on the coaching calls, I feel like sometimes you go these tangents that are almost like this, completely unrelated. But all of us are there, like, taking notes, because that’s when you, like, spill your greatest but like, genius. It’s like, when you’re speaking just like, so authentically from your heart, all of us on the call are like, Oh my gosh, like, this is the best from Sam right now, we all need to take notes on this. And it’s not because you pre planned some, like, nice PowerPoint or Canva presentation and had it all figured out. It’s like you just truly spoke from your authentic experience and your lived experience. And it shows in like, the authenticity and truth that comes through.
Sam Laura Brown
Yeah. And I’ve had periods, sometimes, like, long periods where I’ve been like, okay, to get to, like, the next level of business, I have to, like, get everything right. Like, I have to get my messaging right. I have to get like, this right and that right. And it just, like, it just, it doesn’t work. And it gets so frustrating because you feel like, but I’m getting it right. Why isn’t it working? And it is like that self trust of just returning back to like I can actually just speak freely, and for everyone, that’ll be a different version. But the people that I help, they are those people that like when you’re trying to do it right, you actually do a worse job than when you’re just letting yourself do it bad. So I love you’ve had that experience.
So I’d love to talk to you, and we’ll start wrapping up shortly, but I want to ask you about pgsd and how it’s fit in with other investments that you’ve made. Because most of our PGSDers some haven’t invested in anything else, but a lot have, like a marketing program or other things like that, that they’ve invested in, and like, pgsd is part of their support with building a business, and we particularly help with productivity, implementation, overcoming perfectionism, showing up, putting yourself out there, being committed, like, actually bringing, typically, bringing together all the knowledge you have and the experience. And then, like I like thinking of it as, like, if you’re making a cake, you have all the ingredients, and then, like, we help you mix it and put it in the oven and take out of the oven and ice it. Like we help you take all of those things you have and bring it together, like, to get shit done so you can have the result. But I’d love if you wouldn’t mind just sharing about because I think you’d worked with maybe a coach before pgsd on some of, like, your personal development and things like that. But how has pgsd supported other investments that you’ve made? Like, how has it helped you get an even better return on them? Like, what has that been like for you?
Arielle
Gosh, everything in my life is better because of this program. I know I’ve told you this, but even, like, right now, I’m taking surf lessons living in Brazil, and like before, I would have gone out for a couple surf lessons and been like, I’m bad at this. I just don’t want to continue anymore. And now I literally have your voice in my head being like, I am allowed, like, I’m allowed to go to the stage of being bad at this, like I’m picturing I’m on my fourth out of 50th Instagram post, but it’s just surf lessons. So, like, everything is better because of this program. I completely agree with what you’re saying, that it’s like it creates more freedom to invest in like a marketing program or social media course or business strategy course, because then you can actually trust yourself to show up for those courses and do them. And that’s that’s basically how it’s played out for me, like I’ve worked with a couple other people on marketing and business strategy, and I got a lot more out of those investments because of perfection done, like helping me, like, it’s like partially the scheduling and stuff, but more than anything, it’s just like allowing myself to show up with imperfect energy and intention to those programs.
Because, I would say in the past, like, actually, I have a perfect example, because I did recently take, like, Online Business Strategy program. And in the past, if I took something like that, I would feel like, okay, for every module, I need to sit down, take notes about the modules. Like, make sure I have all like, you know, my team. Everything has to be right before I, like, take those Business modules and start implementing but because of, like, the learnings I’ve gotten from your program, it was like, No, I’m actually just gonna put his lesson in my AirPods, and I’m gonna go for a walk and listen to his training, and I’m not gonna take any notes. And in the end, like, I listened to them all just through my AirPods. I didn’t take any notes in the program, and I still started seeing a kind of like, I got so much information from that program, even though I didn’t implement it perfectly, like I probably got 80% of the information because I didn’t take notes. And if I had sat down, I might have got 100% of the information, but I wouldn’t have done it because I never actually made the time to sit down and take notes on this. So, like, that’s an example where, like, the mindset I’ve gotten from your program have helped me show up for myself and other programs. And, yeah, I think 100% like, it’s you have to, I get to get the best out of the investment with perfection setting, you should semi kind of know what you want to do. And it’s like, now you want this support to, like, trust yourself, follow through and do it, but like, you’ve also helped me with it about a business strategy too. So also, I wouldn’t cut yourself short there, but, but yeah.
Sam Laura Brown
Yeah, no, I’m really excited to be like, Oh no. I do know a lot about marketing and sales and business models and like, across lots of different industries, but I love as well that you shared about because, like, implementation and trusting yourself and following through and doing things is such an important skill in business, and perfectionism makes it really hard, and that’s why I’m really passionate about helping people with it. But as you mentioned, like you could have gotten 100% of the information from module one, and then you would have gotten 0% from every other lesson, because you it was such a big deal to have to, like, go down and write all the notes that you like, it just would have felt like too hard to even do. So you would have had like this perfect.
And I know that people listening will be able to understand exactly what this is like, like, because you want to do it perfectly. You do 5% of it perfectly, but it’s too hard to do it perfectly for all of it, so you don’t do any of it at all. And just being able to shift into like, shift into, like, what would this look like if it was easy and I do the same thing, like, I don’t need to take notes, I can trust it’s going into my brain. If I’m walking to like, it’s going into my subconscious. Is why I love having the private podcast for pgsd, having a little bit of lessons on there, because it’s like, especially if you’re like, walking or like, driving, like it’s going deep in there, and then you can always come back if you need to take notes, but it’s like, I just go, like, it’s going into my subconscious. I don’t even need to, like, I can think about a friend I’m seeing later, or whatever at the same time, and it’s going in there. So I love that it’s helping you, like, really get those other investments you’re making, and have that trust to invest in yourself as well.
Arielle
That was the first time I finished, like, all the modules to a course. Like, there was like nine modules I was, like, mentioned either for that course. And like, I never do that. I always have, like, the first three, and that’s it. But, like, it was strategy information I really needed. And, yeah, it’s first time I got through it all. And something that I just find very funny I’ve been thinking about this recently is like, you pay for programs, but you’ll listen to free podcasts on your walk instead of your paid programs, because you we have this perfectionist mindset about programs, but like, we don’t feel as perfectionistic about podcasts, like free podcasts. So like, even though we’ve paid for like, the highest value information or social media, like we’ve paid for the highest value information. We have access to it, like we paid for access to it. We still consume, like, the like, the watered down version, or not, not the podcast, or not, like, helpful, but just like, we don’t give ourselves permission to consume it imperfectly. It’s just such a weird thing,
Sam Laura Brown
Yeah, and sometimes it is because it’s not easy to access, and you have to, like, log in to somewhere and, like, get it, and it’s hard again. I love the private podcast for that reason, so it’s so easy to consume. But yeah, a lot of times it’s just that perfectionist thinking of, like, well, I invested in this, so I have to, like, like, make the most of it and use it perfectly. And then that perfectionist thought pattern stops us from using it at all. So I’d love to just wrap up by and I’ll get then people to find out more about where they can find you. But if someone’s thinking about pgsd, and if they had that concern that you had, of like, I need to get shit done, like I’m ready to actually start having momentum in my business, like actually showing up the way I want. But what if I don’t actually do the program like, if you if there’s someone listening who’s in that situation, he’s like, like, but I have struggled to follow through with things. So what if I don’t actually like, make the most of pgsd, what would you say to that person?
Arielle
I think if you’ve struggled to follow through with things like that, like this is the one and only investment you should be making. Because how are you going to move forward with your business? If you, if you cannot gain that skill of self trust and learning how to follow through with things like this is like a foundational piece. And so, you know, either you decide on like, like, at least if you’re how where I was before, it’s like, you either decide that you’re not going to pursue entrepreneurship, or you invest in this, or something very similar to this, because, like, you absolutely must be able to follow through and trust yourself in order to grow a business. There is no way around that. And so I think it’s like a necessary investment.
And I think like, your price point is actually at a point where it’s great, because it forces someone to actually step up to the again, take it seriously. It’s not like a $20 a month membership, which is really easy to like, set aside. Like, I think it’s like the perfect range where you’re like, you do take this seriously. And it’s like the tools are inside to learn how to make the commitment and to show up for yourself. My journey of entrepreneurship would be done if I had not taken this program, 100% like I could look at like, looking at me, especially like I can I have business school background, I know, like, thought work really well. Like, I’m really good at working with my subconscious mind. Like I had the mindset and I had the business background, and I still could not move forward because of, like, the lack of self trust, lack of like, understanding how to plan, and also just lack of understanding how perfectionism was showing up for me despite all the other information I had so it wasn’t a requirement.
Sam Laura Brown
Yeah, I love that. Thank you for sharing that. And like, for me, I would be done with business if I hadn’t actually figured out the perfectionism, like that was the that was what was breaking me. And thankfully, I figured that out and was able to get out of my own way, but that, like, that was the thing. Like, you smart potential, able to do things, but like, just couldn’t get myself to do the things I needed to do. So thank you so much for sharing everything that you have. I know it is so helpful for everyone who’s had the privilege of listening to this, to be able to hear your story with pgsd, your story with your business and with perfectionism. Do you want to share just where people can find out more about you?
Arielle
For sure, and it’s been a pleasure to be here. I like this conversation. Yeah, Instagram’s the best place to find me, though, and I’m @lightofarie on Instagram. I’m guessing you’re gonna link that somewhere so I don’t spell it out loud,
Sam Laura Brown
Yes, yes. We’ll link you up in the show notes. Thank you so much. Arielle, I’ll talk to you soon.
Arielle
Thank you.
Outro
I hope you enjoyed that interview with PGSDer, Arielle. She was so generous with what she shared, and I’m so grateful and thankful to be able to be her coach. So PGSD, Perfectionist Getting Shit Done is open for enrollment now, but is closing very soon at 11:59pm New York time on Friday the 25th of October. To get yourself inside, go to samlaurabrown.com/pgsd. If you have any questions, get them answered now. Email support@samlaurabrown.com. We will answer any questions you have. Help you decide if the program is a great fit for you, and if it is, get you inside by the deadline so you can start overcoming perfectionism and getting shit done in your business without burning out.