Episode 460: Using Power Planning To Get Into Creative Flow with Rachel Brown (best of the podcast)

In this episode I’m talking to one of our PGSDers, Rachel, all about using Power Planning to get into creative flow.

Rachel is an artist that enjoys capturing people and characters in her illustrations and loves to share her creative journey with others. She joined PGSD because she had spent years dreaming of pursuing art full time but was too afraid to put her work in front of potential customers and start selling.

With the help of PGSD and Power Planning, Rachel finally opened her online art store and made her first sales – all while working fewer hours than she had before. I’m excited for you to hear how Rachel used Power Planning to grow her business and become the artist she wanted to be (without feeling stressed).

Find the full episode transcript and show notes at samlaurabrown.com/episode460.

In This Episode You’ll Learn:

  • How to never feel pressured or stressed when Power Planning
  • Rachel’s honest experience when she first started Power Planning
  • The practical things that Rachel does with her Power Planning to keep it flexible
  • What Rachel does when she feels inspired to create during her clean rest
  • How to stop resenting the time your full-time job is taking from your business
  • How to accurately estimate how long a creative task will take you
  • When Rachel checks in on her calendar and why it’s never stressful if she’s behind

Featured In The Episode::

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Hi and welcome to another episode of The Perfectionism Project, a podcast full of perfectionism advice for entrepreneurs. My name is Sam Laura Brown, I help entrepreneurs release their perfectionism handbrake so they can get out of their own way and build a fulfilling and profitable business. I’m the founder of the Perfectionist Getting Shit Done group coaching program, which is otherwise known as PGSD. And for even more perfectionism advice to help you with your business. You can follow me on Instagram @perfectionismproject

Sam Laura Brown (custom intro)
In today’s episode, I am sharing an interview that I recorded in 2022 with PGSDer, Rachel Brown, it was such a good interview that I wanted to make sure it didn’t get buried in the podcast archives. This episode is all about power planning and how to use it to get into creative flow. I share more in the intro the original intro that I recorded to this episode. So I won’t say too much more except if you are a creative, regardless of whether you consider yourself one or if you need to do creative things. When it comes to your business, this episode is gonna be so helpful, we get into so many practical things that are going to help you with your power planning. And also before we get into that interview, I just want to make sure you know about the power planning workshop that I’m teaching as a bonus inside perfectionist getting shit done.

So if you’re listening to this episode when it has been released, then you have the opportunity to join me for this workshop live. If you aren’t listening this when it was released, then you can get the replay recording of it. But I want to invite you to join me at 21st of April 7pm New York time, I am teaching a bonus workshop called your first power hour where I will be guiding you through planning out your week properly as a perfectionist. And during that first step of power planning which is the power hour. So I will help you take your overwhelming to do list. No matter how much your past self has been procrastinating, I will help you take that to do list, prioritize it and put it in your calendar in a way you can actually follow through on you’re gonna have your clean rest, you’re gonna have your needle movers identified.

So you’re really focusing on what’s essential and can let go of all the rest, you are just going to be able to actually also calm your perfectionist brain. Because when we are using productivity tools that don’t work for perfectionist, like to do lists or time blocking or paper planners or like post it notes and all of those popular methods. Then we get in our own ways I really want to teach you how to plan properly as a perfectionist. And for this special bonus workshop I will be doing your first power hour with you. You can come in come as you are you don’t do any pre work before joining this workshop. But it’s going to be the perfect time Sunday evening to be planning your week properly and you can plan out this coming week. Ask me any questions that come up along the way. And then go into the week feeling confident and calm that you can get everything done and then rest without guilt. So I want to invite you in samlaurabrown.com/pgsd is where to find out more about the program and sign up today. And yeah, I hope you enjoy this interview with Rachel.

Sam Laura Brown (second intro to guest)
In this episode, I’m interviewing PGSDer, Rachel Brown, who is an artist all about how to use power planning to get into creative flow, and to do your best creative work. We cover so many practical things in this episode that Rachel does with her power planning, different things like buffer time, how she structures her day, what she does when she’s taking clean rest, and she feels inspired to create something, how she balances, building her business with her full time job and how power planning comes into that as well. There are so many things that we cover, including as well, how to not feel pressured, and restricted and stressed when working from a calendar, how to really use your calendar as a tool for kindness, how to make little tweaks to your calendar.

And if you are someone who tends to forget to check in on your calendar, what to do about that we really cover so many things that are going to help you plan better and get out of your own way show up fully for your business and be doing those things that really matter consistently sustainably productively and courageously as well. So we will just get straight into the interview. But I do want to mention that in this episode, we are talking about power planning, which is a way to plan properly as a perfectionist. If you are not yet familiar with power planning. If you’ve never heard me talk about what that involves how to do that. Then I want to first point you to Episode 342 called how to plan properly as a perfectionist using power planning. And in that episode, I cover the three steps of power planning and how to do them so that you’re able to get started with power planning.

Power planning is something that you will learn in depth and really practice inside perfectionists getting shit done. But you are able to get started with it based on what I share that episode. Or if you prefer to watch the video of be chatting about it, you go to samlaurabrown.com/planningseries that will be linked up for you in the show notes. And you can sign up for it there. But either way, it’s going to be really helpful to be familiar with power planning and some of the key concepts such as the three steps, your Power Hour, little tweaks and weekly review, because we really share a lot of practical advice in terms of implementation, especially if you have a creative business. And I really believe that all of us have creative businesses, because we need to be creative in our thinking and the way we solve problems and everything like that.

But particularly if you ask someone like Rachel, who is creating art to sell, maybe you are a writer, or you’re doing anything like that, and you find it really challenging to estimate how long a task takes we talk about that as well. And how Rachel figured that out for herself as an artist. And as someone who really felt like there wasn’t a particular amount of time it always took her so we really cover a lot. And yeah, that episode as well, Episode 342 will be linked up for you in the show notes. So if you’ve already listened to that you’re already familiar with power planning, then I invite you to dive into this episode. I’m so grateful for Rachel for sharing everything that she did. I know this is going to be incredibly helpful. So I hope you enjoy this interview with PGSDer, Rachel Brown.

Sam Laura Brown (start of the interview)
Rachel, thank you so much for coming on the podcast, to talk about your experience, particularly with power planning and creativity and getting into creative flow. Would you mind sharing a bit about your business, what you do and also, what perfectionism looked like for you when you were building your business?

Rachel Brown

Yeah, absolutely. Thank you for having me. This is like a dream of mine. But I’m Rachel Brown, I am an artist, I primarily do digital illustrations of really just things that make me happy. And I like to share a little aspects of my artistic journey as well on Instagram. And perfectionism in my business looks like not really having a business at it really looks like me, dreaming of turning this into something that I could make money from and just being way too terrified to really get started on anything. And so I would just dream and dream and dream. And I’d make all of these plans. And I would never execute on any of them. And I eventually just got so sick of it that I decided to join PGSD. And here I am.

Sam Laura Brown 

So when you were dreaming and making the plans, was that research and looking at what other people were doing or listening to podcasts or things like what did that look like? For you? And did it at times feel like you were making progress, when you can see in hindsight that you were actually just procrastinating on starting?

Rachel Brown

Yeah, it really looks like I’m looking at what other artists were doing on Instagram and seeing them build their following and sell their artwork and putting in plans to mimic what they were doing. But never actually moving forward with those things. Or maybe I would put something into motion for a couple of weeks. And then I wouldn’t see the results immediately. And so I just abandon everything. And I was always making progress with my art, because that was like the one thing that I could just get myself to do. But the actual like putting myself out there and being like, this is something I have to sell. That just never happened. I never even made it to that step.

Sam Laura Brown 

Yeah. And I wanted to mention about that or ask you further about it. Because a lot of times when we are in this dreaming and thinking about it, that we will try to do things or whether it’s with the business as a whole or with a certain project that we want to start that we are really just kind of in this feeling of like we are doing it but then at the same time we’re not but then it gets very frustrating, because we’ll try to do things for a few weeks, and it won’t work right away. And then we get very disheartened. And then we go back into research mode. So thank you so much for sharing a bit more about what that looked like for you.

And I want to talk and we talked before recording about creativity and power planning, because with power planning, we’re working from a calendar and perfectionist particularly associate working from a calendar with restriction and pressure and stress and don’t tend to associate working from a calendar in the way that we do with power planning with being able to be in creative flow, and also to be able to in the business being creative flow.

So it’s not just for artists or writers or anyone who is creatively doing thing. I think we’re all creators in so many ways that in the business, there are so many creative tasks that we do. And if we’re seeing power planning and working from a calendar is something opposed to that. It can be really challenging to adopt a tool that is actually ultimately going to help us be more creative and have more flow. So would you mind speaking a bit to that, but also like what did your planning looked like for you before you started power planning were you working from to do lists like tell me more about that?

Rachel Brown

For I was mostly working from A to Z You list. And yeah, I would kind of just sit down and like write down all my tasks, I would sit down and I would write down all my tasks. And just, I would usually pick off the things that were the easiest for me to do. And that took, the less the least amount of courage. And then you know, everything else just get kind of rolled over, over and over and over. And I experimented a little bit with time blocking previously. And it was just like a huge disaster, because I would just put in way too much of my calendar, I wouldn’t actually be able to do any of it, it wasn’t realistic, there were no breaks or anything. And the tasks on my calendar weren’t specific.

And so I never got any of that done either. And I blamed the, the system, when really, it was the way that I was implementing it, that wasn’t helpful. And so when I finally learned power planning, and like, with the full process that we have, where, you know, you write down all the tasks, and then you have to actually identify the needle movers, and then particularly with planning and the clean rest first, it really just forced me to see that, like, what I was doing before was completely unrealistic. And I needed to really pick out the things that were the most important and make space for me to like, get up and take breaks and eat, you know, things like that. And that really opened up like a lot more freedom in my schedule, when I was kind of, like forced to work within like a more realistic plan.

Sam Laura Brown 

What would you say is the difference between or a few of the differences between time blocking and power planning, because I think that when people hear that with power plants working from a digital calendar, and if they’ve tried time blocking before, and having big chunks for say, like, in your case, it might be create artwork, or it might be an Instagram post, and it’s kind of framed in that like, you know, work on this particular project and chip away at it. And when we’re time blocking as well, a lot of the times, we’re just trying to put everything on our to do list into our calendar and completely ignoring the fact that we’re a human being who needs to eat and sleep and do all these other things as well. So, from your experience, what would you say is the difference between time blocking and that experience you had and then doing Power planning?

Rachel Brown

Yeah, I think the biggest difference was the specificity of the tasks. So I was putting things in my calendar, like, draw for three hours. And with power planning, I put in things where they’re like outcome based, so I’ll be like, you know, finish or like sketch finished, or some illustration I’m working on. And then I think the other big difference was the fact that I play in in my clean rest now first. And I have to like, strategically plan in my needle movers around that. Because before, it would just be like all work, like I wouldn’t plan in time to do anything else. And so then, of course, when I’ve just been like working all day, I get to a point where I’m like, I can’t do this anymore. And then, you know, I can’t finish the plan for one day. And so I’d throw out the plan for the rest of the week. And I’d started again, but next week. So I think those are the two big differences is the specificity and then planning in the rest first. And just being more realistic about what I really have time for when it comes to my business tests.

Sam Laura Brown

Yeah, and it can be quite confronting sometimes when we’ve gone from either this endless to do list, or we’re coming from time blocking, and that being really unrealistic that then we actually see when we’re palpating when we add in the clean rest before the needle movers, that we don’t actually have an unlimited amount of time to work on the business, even though we know that we’re constantly in this sort of like, I don’t have enough time, we still feel like, well, I can kind of like walk all day and chip away at things. So we don’t feel that kind of I don’t really want to say pressure, but we don’t have that awareness around time that we do when we do begin power planning and seeing, Oh, I only have x number of hours. And so it really is important that I focus on the needle movers. What was that experience like for you to actually go from not having a real look at time to maybe being confronted with the reality of how much time you have to work on your business?

Rachel Brown

Yeah. Confronted is such it’s a perfect word for it. Okay, I remember the first time that I power planning, I started power planning I, yeah, I wrote out all of my to do’s and I put in all of my clean rest. And then I just cried for like 30 minutes, I was like, There’s literally no way that I could get all this stuff done. But once I managed to pick myself back up again, from that, I, I was able to see that a lot of the things that I had been putting down on my to do list were just not necessary. And that there really were just a few key things that I needed to focus on each week. And it wasn’t that big of a deal if I couldn’t get everything done that week. And I could just move it over to the next week. And I think it just Yeah, it really helped a lot with forcing myself to prioritize those things that really mattered. And also getting smart about the way that I was approaching things. So I wasn’t like taking, you know, the long way to get things done. And I was really like asking myself, How can I make this task easier for myself? Or can I eliminate parts of this task?

Sam Laura Brown 

I’m so glad that you shared that you cried. And not because I’m glad that you cried. But because it can be really confronting. And it can be this kind of reality slap of like, Oh, I didn’t, I’m seeing something I didn’t want to see. It’s like if someone knows they have a lot of debt, and then they actually check their bank accounts, or they’re not happy with their weight, and they step on the scale. And that’s something they’ve been avoiding that it can be a little bit alarming at first. And we can kind of go into this all or nothing mindset about it in a way as well that we think that we’re not able to change it, and we’re not able to make any progress. And that can have us then deciding what I’m just gonna go back to this to do list where I wasn’t forced to actually look at how much time I have and to prioritize it and to think about my business and myself in a different way.

So it’s really helpful. Like, I know, with your journey with power planning that you were able to pick yourself up, you did that and you’ve continued with it and you’ve had so much success with and I can see as your coach, how much growth you have really created for yourself with that being one of the main tools. And I just am glad that you shared that. It wasn’t like you just sat down, you did power planning for the very first time and like the heavens opened. And that was it, that we really need to approach it with a growth mindset and know that in the beginning by going to be a beginner, and it is designed to bring up things that we have been avoiding and increase our self awareness so that we can make changes that need to be made. And that’s going to be uncomfortable and confronting at times. And that’s okay. And it’s just knowing that and normalizing that.

So that it’s like if you lift weights the first time and you can’t lift very heavy weights, and you’re really sore if you know that everyone has that experience, or a lot of people have that experience, where then more easily able to pick up the weights again and go okay, well, that was normal, I’m just gonna keep going, I know I’m gonna get stronger. And it’s the same with power planning that we’re able to go from in the beginning, just doing you know the steps in the best way that we can, but just kind of having a go at it and feeling like maybe we’re not doing the best job but just being a beginner and doing it to then as the week’s go on, to really starting to understand like, Where does clean rest fit in? And what are my needle movers and different things like that? What would you say for you was some of the tasks that weren’t needle movers, that you thought were my needle movers. We talked about this in PDSD a lot. The needle movers are the things that move the business forward.

And we do this in the context of our growth goal and having a destination in mind. It’s so important we have that otherwise, it’s really hard to tell what the priorities are. But we want to be looking at doing the tasks that actually matter because perfectionist we love procrastinate working, busy work, all of that kind of thing, and just keeping ourselves busy with the more comfortable tasks. So would you just mind sharing if you can remember a few examples of tasks that felt really important to you? And that made it confronting when you couldn’t fit all of them into your calendar to like, what were those times that you were able to then say actually, it’s okay if I don’t do these, and perhaps I’ll even be better off if I don’t get these done. Were there any that come to mind?

Rachel Brown

Yeah. I think one of the big ones was, like I used to get like really wrapped up in a lot of planning related things. So like I would plan and replan my content calendar all the time. A lot of the things that I wasted time on were like Instagram related. Yeah, I would spend so much time trying to like create this perfect content calendar and content strategy, when really I realized I needed to just be like making the content and kind of allow the calendar and the strategy to develop as I was taking that action. And then another thing that I was doing was like prioritizing, putting out Instagram posts, like on a regular cadence over sitting down actually developing a product that I wanted to sell.

Like, I was just putting everything else above selling, like build an audience, like all of that stuff I would put above selling. And like with the growth goal, especially like having that look at me in the face, I was like, well, if I’m gonna hit this growth goal, I need to actually sell something, you know. So it became really clear to me that the things I had been spending my time on, they were important. And there were things I needed to get back to at some point, but they just weren’t the most pressing tasks that need to be focusing on at that time.

Sam Laura Brown 

That’s so powerful, you shared that something that wasn’t needed me about was posting consistently on Instagram, because it’s one of those things that we think well, of course, that has to be a needle mover and we end up and I’ve definitely been guilty of this of prioritizing, meeting that goal, before prioritize the meeting the goal, like the bigger goal that we have, and getting there in the way that actually makes the most sense to us, instead of just like following these rules that we’ve had experts talking about or seeing what everyone else is doing.

And that this is why we do have a revenue goal, rather than a goal around followers or engagement or things like that, even though that can be uncomfortable. That it actually since we’re in business, it really forces us to look at okay, what am I actually selling and since perfectionist like we tend to be people pleasers and we want everyone to like us and all of that. And a lot of us have beliefs about selling that contradict being like we think people are gonna think I’m salesy, and I’m a sellout and all these different things. And so we’re like, well, I’ll just focus on building my audience. And then once I get a big enough audience, I’ll be able to sell without feeling salesy.

And so I’ll just focus on that. But that’s really the long way around. And often, it doesn’t even work, because we’re focusing on the wrong thing. And we’re also approaching the goal in a way that allows our perfectionism to just keep playing into things. So thank you for sharing that, that was something for you that felt really important and was very justified. And it doesn’t mean that you’re then having to be all or nothing like cool. I’m never gonna post on Instagram again. But just knowing what’s actually important for you, at this stage of your business, and knowing that that’s going to change as your business grows as you grow, or the different seasons of business or that kind of thing. Has it been like what has your experience been like, with navigating that?

Because when it comes to strategy, and I know we’ve had conversations in the PGSD forum about this, in your persistent slog, that’s that we can be in this mindset of like meeting the perfect strategy. And I just need to like pause selling for a while to figure out what that is. And yeah, could you just share a bit more of your experience with like, how power planning new growth goal has helped you to navigate and figure out I’m sure you’re still in the process of that. So am I. But what does that look like for you? What’s been helpful for you, as you have been looking at? Okay, so I have art that I’m selling, and how do I sell that and get that in the hands of the people who wanted reach my goal in a way that’s aligned for me? Yeah, tell me more.

Rachel Brown

Yeah. I think I mean, like I was saying before, having the growth goal is so important, because without it, I would just have this like weird vague feeling that I’m chasing rather like rather than a specific result. And so I’ve been showing up really consistently with for my weekly reviews and my quarterly reviews. And that’s been really helpful in just like helping me refocus my brain if it starts wanting to trail off in the in the direction of life, but I need to build an audience first, which does happen regularly. And so it’s helpful to have that review and the goal to anchor myself to when that happens. So yeah, I just, I like to use my weekly review to just like really dig into some of the thoughts that come up throughout the week that might get me off track a bit and I will even like change up the questions in my review.

Based on some of the things that I noticed coming up a lot that I want to focus more on. So like when I was really focusing on self trust, I had a question that was like, What were three times that I showed self trust this week. And that really helped with, like, focusing on those thoughts and like helping me to really focus on myself trust moving forward as well. Yeah, I just I think the reflection is super important. Having that specific result has been really important. And it’s helped me focus more on the actual product in the selling. And using that to drive the content, right. Like, it’s not like, the content is the main thing that I’m here to do, like, I want to sell my artwork. And that’s like, the Instagram content supports that.

Sam Laura Brown

Yeah. And it’s such a big distinction to that, we can really get an again, speaking from experience here, we can really get caught in thinking our job is creating the content. And if we do that perfectly enough, then it will just happen to sell what we want to sell, instead of actually just doing the direct work on where we want to sell, and upgrading our self image around selling and being someone who sells and markets. And yeah, it really is just it’s so much more direct. And that can make it really uncomfortable. Because it’s comfortable to just learn about the algorithm and to do the content plan, and to be spending time on graphics and watching tutorials on how to create a reel or for some people might be Instagram, or there’s some other platform, they find themselves really wanting to perfect.

And so this really helps us the Growth Goal power plant and clean brass as well, because that takes time away in a way from the business so that we really have to be focused on what actually matters and clarifying that for ourselves, that were then able to actually just be really focused on the goal at hand instead of all these tricky ways. Our perfectionism wants us to focus on it in these really indirect ways. So when it comes to creativity, and being able to work from a calendar and Power Plan, in a way that doesn’t feel pressured, or restricted, or stressful, and basically, for us to not be a bit to ourselves with our calendar, but to actually have it as a tool for kindness, and that we can have it as something that supports us including creativity, and supports our goals, and holds us accountable.

And doesn’t let us off the hook but not in this stressful way. But in this really beautiful way. We’re building self trust and our connection and relationship with ourselves. What has your experience been like with that, especially in terms of like flexibility and being able to, you know, create when it feels best to you or not feeling like you have to sit down and create something now because it’s the time that it says on your calendar?

Rachel Brown

Yeah, so, I mean, this was one of the things that I love about power planning is like it, you don’t have to stick to the plan exactly once you’ve laid it all out. But what it really helps with is it shows you what you truly do have time for, which actually allows you to be more flexible. So there have been times where I’ve planned out like, I’m going to sketch out some illustration at this time. And I’ve sat down to do it. And I’m like, oh, like, I really don’t feel like this is the right time to do it. And not from that place of like, I’m trying to avoid it. But like it truly doesn’t feel like the right time.

And I can just easily swap it in my calendar. It’s something else. Whereas before, I was like, Well, I guess I’ll just push this to some other undefined time. And I had no idea if I actually had the ability to get it done then or, you know, like when it was going to happen. And now I can actually say like, No, I’m going to move this to this time and move some other tasks now into this time. So I like I do think power planning like it makes at first you’re like, oh, but isn’t this going to be super rigid, because I’ve have all these time blocks in my calendar, but it really helps with my creative flow because I’m able to kind of move things around fluidly and know that it’s still gonna get done. So that’s really how I approach that.

Sam Laura Brown 

No, that answers that. I think that really about having it be something that like we plan out our week, am I committed to those plans. And also, as the week goes, was still checking in with ourselves and where we’re at and what’s going on. It’s not like because this is the thing with planning if we think we have to strictly follow the plan and we can’t make any changes whatsoever. Ah, that’s going to make us overthink the plan completely. And it takes hours to do it, or we’re not going to plan at all. Because we think, well, there just isn’t enough certainty in my week, I don’t know what’s going to happen, I don’t know how I’m going to be feeling. And all of us have different things going on in our lives and also motivation and energy levels that fluctuates throughout the week.

And so it’s knowing that I’m going to use previous weeks to understand myself more like what time of day I work best, how long I can work for when I tend to do my best work, because we’re updating our PowerPoint as we go so we can see what actually happened. And then we plan the week. And then as the week goes on, we’re not just ignoring ourselves, instead, we’re using our power planning as a tool to be more connected to ourselves. So that we can just make those little tweaks as we go. And instead of it being like a long to do lists, and like, I don’t feel like doing that. So I’m just going to push it off. And then we just have it in the back of our mind this thing that we told ourselves would do, but we haven’t done and we’ve been wanting to do it for months, but we haven’t got ourselves to do it.

That it instead becomes I’m not going to do it today, I’m deciding that it’s not happening to me, I’m deciding I’m not going to do it today, or I’m not going to do it this morning. And this is when I’m going to do it. And so it doesn’t become this overwhelming thing of all. Now, I don’t know when it’s going to get done. And I can’t trust myself to get it done at all. Is there anything you do particularly with your calendar, like if we could talk about some specifics, you use buffer time, which is just blocks of time, where you haven’t allocated anything in particular, that you can move things into that or you can create new tasks that come up throughout the week? Is there anything else that you use in your power planning to really help with that flexibility and being able to connect with where you’re at and what’s going on and kind of honor what comes up throughout the week without ignoring your goals and ignoring where you want to go with your business?

Rachel Brown

Yeah, and you actually reminded me of something while you’re talking around. Like how, like estimating how long it actually takes you to get things done. I know that I definitely felt this way. And I know a lot of artists feel that way where they’re like, Well, my art just takes as long as it’s gonna take, you know, they’re like, I can’t actually plan it out, because it just takes however long. And I definitely felt that way. And when I started power planning that was a little tricky for me, like it took some time for me to, like figure it out. But I kind of started out just like logging how long it was taking me to get certain parts of my illustrations done. And then like after a couple of weeks, I could kind of see like, Okay, this step usually takes about an hour, like it takes me like an hour to an hour and a half to sketch and then might take me like an hour to do the line work. And now I know like pretty much how long it’s gonna take me to do every single piece that I work on. Like it usually lands around the same amount of time.

And I actually am able to like plan out exactly how long it’s going to take. And I would have never been able to do that with a to do list because I was never tracking. And I love how like at the end of every week, I have a full log of everything that I did. So that helps a lot with actually figuring out how long each thing was going to take me to do. And as far as like buffer time, I do like to leave in like, two ish hours, usually per week for me is what I feel like I need just in case like anything comes up or something takes me a little longer than I think it will. I don’t have like a whole ton of stuff going on in my life. So I don’t need like a ton of buffer time.

But I like to leave a little bit just in case. And I also don’t like to have too much extra time because I find that I will like spill things over longer than they really need to. Which like another reason why I really enjoy creating, like within the bounds of power planning is that I don’t noodle my illustrations for a super long time. Like I could get into that perfectionist mindset with that as well. And now I’m like, Okay, I need to stop. Like I can’t just keep working on this forever. See, I think like, again, the weekly reviews looking back at what I did in the past week has really helped me to plan out how long everything’s going to take me and hold me accountable to those times. And if things are taking longer than I can really sit down ask myself like, do I really need the extra time? Or am I just like getting in my head about this? And I need to just like move on with the plan.

Sam Laura Brown 

How long would you say it took roughly for you to go from like when you started how planning to being able to estimate how long a task or specifically created an artwork would take because this is something that I think regardless of whether someone is an artist or anything else, that it can can be challenging in the beginning to estimate how long a task is going to take. And especially if we’ve done things like time blocking before we can be in this mindset of like, well, I just I have a business where I can’t actually estimate how long things will take. So I can’t plan. And I need to work from a to do list, but actually estimating how long a task will take.

And being able to adapt when the task takes longer or is shorter, is a skill that can be developed. And that’s one of the skills that we are developing when we’re power planning. So I think it’s really important that when anyone’s going into it, they’re not expecting that they should be able to accurately estimate how long a task will take. At the same time, it’s never a problem, when we underestimate how long a task will take because of buffer time, because of the little tweaks that we make to the calendar that we’re able to adapt. And we’re able to update things as we go. So did it take you a while to be able to get that data from doing artwork and reflecting on it to see how long it would take or what was that like for you?

Rachel Brown

Yeah, I think it took me maybe like four to six weeks before I felt like I started to, like get into the groove of it a little bit. Yeah, it was about four to six weeks of me just like kind of guessing. And then seeing what happens, and then, you know, making small adjustments every single week. And then I’d say like after that, yeah, it was a little more consistent. I was able to kind of figure out like, Okay, this is how much time that I need.

Sam Laura Brown 

Yeah. And how do you go when it comes to? How do you go with checking in on your calendar, because this is something as well that we can be in this mindset of like, well, okay, it’s all well and good, if that’s the case, but then I just forget to look at my calendar. And especially if I’m like really wrapped up in a task or a project, say if it is like creating art, I just get so into it that the time just flies by, and I gave myself an hour. And before I know it, it’s three hours, and then I’m behind on my plan. So what do you do to help you check in with your calendar, and to not do that in a way where it’s feeling like you’re being watched by someone you’re having to like, stick to this certain time and time is ticking away. And therefore it’s just not enjoyable at all, but being present with your calendar, so that you do have the insight when you might be overthinking and it’s taking longer.

Rachel Brown

Yeah, I usually have my calendar up in like a tab on my computer all the time. And so I’ll like check in with it at the beginning of the day. And I’ll usually check in with it like, I don’t know, periodically throughout the day, like before I start certain tasks. If like with art, for sometimes I’ll sit down and kind of draw for a longer period of time, I might set like a timer. I put on like a show or something that I know will kind of be around the same amount of time. So that I don’t feel like I’m being Yeah, like I’m working on a test or something with a timer. But yeah, just like for me just kind of like checking in on it. At the beginning of the day, maybe like mid day and end of day just to make sure that I’m kind of on task has been helpful for me, I might be a little more of like a, an anal person or something too, because like, more often than most people do. But I think it’s helpful to just like set a timer, maybe if you get like kind of caught up and forget to check the time.

Sam Laura Brown 

Yeah, and it’s knowing that when we say things like I forget to look, it’s often I’m choosing not to look and it can be because we’ve over scheduled ourselves and put so much on there that we like don’t even want to phase that we’re so behind in the plan, which we’re sure we are because we’ve procrastinated and done different things. And so we just like kind of conveniently forget about it. But if we can instead like in this case, the reason you can and I do very similar in the morning, I’ll check in on my power planning when I’ve got scheduled around lunchtime ish. I mean, I’ll have it up on my computer, I have two screens, but I’ll have it up and I’ll be kind of keeping an eye on it. But not super close. I don’t really have to because I haven’t over scheduled myself because there aren’t so many things that I’m trying to jam pack into the day, that it’s not super challenging to remember that I’m able to just check in the morning around lunch.

The end of the day is usually when I do my little tweaks, though I will often do it as I go because say if something I thought would take me an hour. There’s some reason it took me an hour and a half or two hours that I don’t extend my workday. Maybe we can talk about this as well, what your experience is like with that, but I don’t extend my work day. And so I need to then move it into buffer time that I Have later in the week, or if there’s not enough buffer time that I need to look at everything, prioritize what’s most important deprioritize something or just drop it into the next week. So next week, I’m gonna do my PowerPoint, and I see it. So when it comes to that kind of thing and finishing your day on time, what does that look like for you? Is that something that’s been a bit of a journey? Or do you find that when it’s the time that you said you would ultimately end that, that you do that? Would you mind sharing? Yeah, that

Rachel Brown

I think this comes a little naturally for me, because well, at least during the week, I like have a full time job. And so I schedule my business time in the morning, and then I go to my job, and then at the evening, I don’t let myself do anything else. And sometimes I want to, but I plan that in his by clean rest, and I, like abide by that. Even if I’m feeling anxious to work on other things, I just tell myself, like, great, you can carry that excitement over to the next day. On the weekends, I’ve had to be a little harder on myself with this, because sometimes I can just work like a whole, like 10 hours on a Sunday or something. But I’ve liked, I like to work in like two hour chunks, which I think is another reason why it’s pretty easy for me to stick to my schedule as well, I’ll do like, sorry, that 10 hour, two hour chunks, they say that I work in two hour chunks. Okay.

So I’ll do like two hours of focused work, and then maybe take like an hour or two of a break, and then do another two hour chunk of work. And then I usually try to just let myself be done on the weekends as well. So I think like keeping to that same structure every day also helps with not allowing myself to just like, go and go and go and try to like, you know, capitalize on a good day. Yeah, keeping that structure definitely helps. And like power planning helps with that. Because I get to like just I will like put in the things that I like to keep the same every week I have those recurring tasks, and then I’ll like kind of schedule my business tasks around that.

Sam Laura Brown 

There was that a structure that you knew that worked well for you before power planning? Or is it something that power planning helped you uncover and then refine?

Rachel Brown

Yeah, that was something that power planning helped me with. Like with my, my job is kind of flexible, because I work remotely. And I just have to be available for certain meetings. And so I can kind of shift my work hours around. And so I just found that in the evenings, I was way too tired to work on anything, especially the courageous business tasks. And so I decided to shift my full time job a little later and do my business stuff in the morning. And then the working in two hour chunks, that was something I figured out when I just kind of noticed, like, every week on the weekends, I would just plan out way too much to do in one big chunk. And I usually wouldn’t get everything done, you know, and I noticed those things getting carried over week after week. And so I was like, hey, maybe I’m just going to do this two hours of work, and then have a break and then do another two hours and then just be done with it. Because once it starts getting past like 3pm or so I can’t really function anymore. So I, I like to just end the day there.

Sam Laura Brown 

Yeah, and I want to highlight that you said about like working 10 hours on a Sunday, that when we’re planning like, I never teach anyone like you need to work this many hours. Or I’m like working chunks of you know, two hours, whatever, or only work six hours in a day or anything like that. It’s really about having it as a tool to figure that out for ourselves. Because everyone has different life circumstances, different work rhythms, and also those life circumstances and work rhythms are going to change as we go through different seasons of life. So if I’m there telling you, you need to work X number of hours, and it might work for the season you’re in, but it might not work for the next season. And then you don’t have the self trust to adapt your plans. And that’s something we’re really working on building with power planning. It’s such a great tool for that.

But working 10 hours on a Sunday, for example, is never a problem. And it’s really about was that what we had planned? And is that something that is working for us and looking at like, are we getting enough clean rest, and I do want to chat about clean rest, especially since you’ve mentioned it a few times, which is guilt free rest. But it’s not a problem like it’s everyone’s going to have a different looking whack day. But we can figure out what actually works for us and for some people, they will know if I’m working 10 hours. That probably means I’ve got my perfectionism handbrake on and I’m overthinking Things are I’m attributing a certain result to having my strategy look a certain way or doing a certain amount of tasks and that I need to like, take a step back and actually look at this plan and clean up my thinking a bit so that I can create a more simple plan, and more belief in my goal and get there.

But it’s really just knowing how we work best. And using power planning as a tool to figure it out, there’s no right or wrong amount of hours to work, and it’s so lovely to hear that you have been able to figure it out for you what your work with him really looks like and how to just work with how your brain works, instead of it was like, cool, you have to do a four hour chunk. And then you have to have a 30 minute lunch break into a four hour chunk, say maybe like in the corporate world, it’s that kind of thing. It’s like, especially if we have our own businesses, I could work one hour, half an hour off work an hour, half an hour off, I could work 10 hours, no break. And that can be healthy if I had, you know, doing that from the right place, a growth minded place, and I can work 10 hours and not have any break.

And then I can have three days off, like it can be completely different for everyone. But I did want to chat to you a bit more about with your full time job. Because that is something that I’ve worked full time as well while building my business. And I know that it can really just feel like that job is stealing away precious time and precious energy. And that it just I would just be so much more successful if I didn’t have this stem job. And we can really spend a lot of energy resenting that job. And I know from your persistence, log that you’ve been on a journey with that. And like, you know, reimagining your relationship with your job to better support you in your business. Could you share a little bit more about what that is look like for you and how you’re able to focus on building your business and do that work, while also showing up for your job.

Rachel Brown

Yeah, I this is a journey I’m still on, I feel like I still kind of flip flop between like, and I really wish I didn’t have this damn job and feeling like it’s okay. But I, I really have tried to. I think first like, something I noticed was that I had been being very vague about what it was about the job specifically that was making me so frustrated, you know, like I would just very vaguely be like, it’s taking energy, it’s taking time. And I never took the time to sit down and be like, what is actually the problem? Like what am what is actually causing these feelings of frustration, What even are the feelings specifically. And so I actually started bringing power planning and my weekly review into my job as well, that’s a practice that I also follow in that space. And that’s helped me to figure out like, what the specific things are, that I’m frustrated by and then to like actually solution on those things. And so I’ve actually been able to get my job more to a place where it is way less frustrating and takes way less energy away from me than it used to.

But I’m also actually grateful that it takes so much of my time away, because without that, I wouldn’t have been able to see just how much time I was wasting on things I didn’t need to be focused on. You know, like, if I didn’t have the job, I wouldn’t have had that moment where I just sobbed, trying to do my job, I had all of these tasks that I had to get done. So it’s really like, I think it’s supported me in my business more than anything, because it’s really forced me to get creative and be resourceful and trust that like I can carry this out even with the you know, quote unquote, limited time that I have. And I’m trying to use my job more now to, like improve in some of the areas I think will be useful in my business. So I’ve been trying to like find opportunities to like speak more and lead others more than just like get myself into some more uncomfortable situations like in practice like myself trust in those situations as well. And that’s been bleeding over into the business. So it’s, yeah, it’s it’s a back and forth relationship, a love hate relationship, but I think it’s overall good for me.

Sam Laura Brown 

Yeah, and I think it’s okay to that. We’re not like we don’t have tell ourselves, we have to be feeling amazing about it all the time. And for other people, it might not be a full time job. It might be looking after children or maybe a parent or like a health condition or these different things that we feel like I just didn’t have this one thing that was kind of taking all my time away, that I’d be able to do so much more and her brain is okay if our brain thinks those thoughts and also we do have The power to redirect them not to these like thoughts that sound great, but don’t feel good, but actually identifying for ourselves, thoughts about the business that and the full time job or whatever it is, that allow us to show up fully for both and really recognizing like, if you do have a job that is taking time away from the business, that you are choosing to work that job, and that was something for me, when I was in my job that really helped me was seen my job as an investor in the business because it was supporting my financial needs personally. So I didn’t need to rely on the business.

And I was then able to make longer term decisions for the business and make money in a way that was really aligned with how I wanted to make it, I never felt like I was having to make quick money. I mean, there were definitely times where I was putting pressure on myself with goals and feeling that kind of thing. But it was never from this place of, I’m not going to have food on the table. And so in that sense, the job really did so much for me as much as my brain like it just loved to default to I don’t have enough time, it’s a jobs fault, I don’t have enough time, it’s a jobs fault. And just kind of loop in that or I don’t have enough energy, it’s my job’s fault. Instead of being like I’m choosing to be at this job. Here’s all the reasons why. Because I could leave if I wanted to, but here’s why I’m choosing this for me. And the same if someone is choosing not to be in a job when they could be, here’s why I’m choosing not to be same thing.

And then doing that work so that we’re not spending so much energy, resenting the job, and complaining to us, even when are complaining to others. If we spend all day in our heads complaining about it, it just takes away so much energy and time. And it’s just the irony of we complain about it taking up so much time and then we whinge about it to ourselves, and it takes me even more time than it already is. So just knowing that it is possible to have something that is taking up a lot of time and a successful business and to not resent the job or whatever it is, and to be able to be fully present.

So speaking of that, can we talk about clean rest, so resting without guilt, in terms of especially the creativity and how that helps you to be more creative, rather than if you’re just because I can sit at a computer all day as well. Like I can sit at a desk for a long period of time. But I’m not doing my best work when that happens. So how has clean rest been helpful for you? What has that looked like? Has that brought up any things to work on? Like for me, it was like, Oh, shit, I don’t even know what I like to do beyond the business side. Especially before I had my daughter, like I was like, What do I love the business I want to like keep working and being productive. And it really forced me to explore myself a lot more and what I enjoy doing beyond being productive. So when it comes to clean rest, how has that helped you be more creative and and what’s come up for you on your journey with clean rest?

Rachel Brown

Yeah, I, I used to find myself in these situations where, like I said, I would like just to draw and draw and draw for these extended periods of time. And then I just be completely depleted of all of that creative energy for days. And I feel like having that clean rest, where I just go and do other things has really helped me just stay creative, and never really feel like I’m burning out or I’m like experiencing an art block or something like that. And it’s given me so much more time to just spend with other people, because I used to get into this mode of like, I need to work on the business stuff. And I can’t ever, like spend time with my partner, go see friends or anything like that. And I used to, like resent other people and they’d be like, Hey, you want to do something I like I was like everyone’s taking up my weekend there second of all of my time. And it’s been nice to like actually plan in for that time to spend with other people because I do want to spend time with them. And so that’s been helpful, just like having some time to get away see human beings and get my mind off of the business stuff. And then I’m also really excited when I come back to to the business as well because I’m not just like constantly, you know, churning on it all the time.

Sam Laura Brown 

Yeah, I can relate to that as well, especially when I was working in my full time job and I felt like I really had this story that I had so little time to work on the business as it was that I just felt like anything else. Even if it was something I wanted to do like catching up with friends or family or something that was enjoyable, even stuff like meal prep that was helping me I was like I should be working on the business. And it just man I always felt exhausted and then when it came time to work on the business, I wasn’t even able to be fully focused and I would procrastinate and scroll, Instagram and that kind of thing. Because my, like, I my brain just hadn’t had a chance to recharge. So for you when it comes to the clean rest and creativity, are there times when you’re on clean rest time in your power planning that you just really feel like you need to sit down and create some beam. And it’s like, I’m just in that like that inspiration right now and I just need to do it. Does that come up for you? If so, what do you do when that happens? And does it look different? on different occasions?

Rachel Brown

Yeah, sometimes it does happen sometimes. And I handle it differently in different times, I guess like, yeah, sometimes I get the urge. And I’m like, Oh, I just have to do right now. And so I will just let myself do it. Because it is I mean, you know, drawing is like my hobby as well. It’s what I do for fun. So we’ll let myself do that. Sometimes I’ll like kind of reschedule the clean rest at another time. If I do that. Sometimes I’ll try and limit myself like, Okay, I’ll just like sketch down an idea so that I at least like I have something to work on when I come back to it later. And but other than that, I it honestly doesn’t really tend to happen that much, I think because I know like I have time for this at another time. And so when my clean rest time comes, I usually do just want to like, chill out and take a step away and do whatever, I don’t really plan out my time, like for what I’m going to do specifically, I just have the free time there. And then whatever I feel like doing, I’ll do so I might just like watch TV or take a nap or play a video game or something like just whatever I’m feeling in that moment.

Sam Laura Brown 

I know you’ve been working on self trust by being in PJSC. And it really sounds like when you say that, that there’s a lot of self trust that you’ve built there that I don’t need to do it right this second I can if I want to, and I will let myself and that sort of problem. But I don’t need to from this place of like I need to act on the inspiration because I can’t trust myself to do the thing later. It seems like there’s this base level of trust of I can trust myself to get this done and to do it at the level I want to do it. And do I want to do it now maybe? Or do I want to do it another time? Rather than I think yeah, a lot of times it comes from like, I need to, like really capitalize on this motivation. I used to work like this, I was like, I’ve had this idea. And I need to do something with it right now.

Because I don’t trust that I will be able to act upon it. Once my brain starts thinking of the self doubt, perfectionist kind of thoughts, I need to act on it, while I’m in this emotional high kind of state. And in a lot of ways that like that’s how kind of like the podcast started and PGSD initially and things like that. So there’s, it’s not like it’s bad when things happen like that. But just it’s a different way of working when you can do things in inspiration if you want to, but you’re not doing it from lack of self trust, but instead doing it from this really grounded place. So I think I just want to acknowledge you for that as well that it’s really obvious how much the work you’ve been doing, even if you can’t feel it yourself at times, is paying off and is really showing up in the way that you’re approaching things.

And the other thing I wanted to mention with this as well for anyone who finds themselves wanting to like being scared of scheduling and rest or using that kind of thing in that calendar, because what if I’m inspired to do something and I need to keep painting my plan that the beauty of doing the little tweaks is that say, for example, with Rachel, if every night when you got home from work, you’re like I’m just so inspired to create art that you could, if you let yourself do that, and it would it would come up in your calendar, because you’re making little tweaks to reflect what you did. And then you can see like when you’re doing your weekly reviews, oh, like, I like to take a screenshot of my week when I’ve planned it and my week at the end of the week, so I can really just see the differences. So you can say, hey, I plan to do all this creative work before work.

But I ended up doing all my creative work after work. And then if that trend continues, it could be like well actually, maybe I’m just going to experiment with scheduling in my creative work after work and like work with how my brain is seeming to want to go and I’m going to do my clean rest in the morning whatever that looks like. And so it’s knowing that like we can if we do want to follow that we can also notice patterns there like you did when you were like I don’t know how long it takes to create a piece of art and then you’re like, actually I bet if I just looked I could I probably do it in a pretty similar way each time. And when you did look you could see actually at tends to take this arc and maybe there are a few exceptions but generally from start to finish it looks like this. That we that then become like not scared of putting clean rest in our calendar and not scared of deviating from it. But just having the power planning there and the plan laid out so that we do have those check in points to see like, this is my hypothesis as to what I think will get me to my goal in a way that really works for me.

And like thinking about if this was easy as in if I wasn’t overthinking everything and overworking them, what would this look like? And then we can use that weekly review, as you’ve mentioned, to check in on like, Okay, did my hypothesis like, where is it working? Where isn’t it working? What adjustments can I make? And so if there is this particular time of day that you notice, you’re always feeling inspired, or whatever, that you can do that and actually work that in, or it might be just adding a lot of buffer time into your calendar so that it can kind of end up wherever it needs to. And it’s very different to doing that, versus just having like, why don’t I just walk from a to do list then? Because we don’t have the clean? Right? Like, it’s just it’s very different. What would you say to that? If someone’s like, well, I just love working whenever I feel inspired. And so why don’t I just have a to do list. And I just like myself, I kind of want to work and not work when I don’t want to work or create?

Rachel Brown

Yeah, I would say I mean, like you were saying, I think you really miss out on that opportunity to, like, see exactly how you’re spending your time and reflect on that. And, like, be able to plan out your weeks in order to achieve the goal that you’re actually going after, you know, like, I think, if I wasn’t doing this for business, it would be fine for me to just have like a list of things that I want to do and just kind of work on them when I feel like it. But if I want to hold myself accountable to the goal, like I think I need some structure to be able to see like, Okay, this is how much time that I have. And this is what I’m actually going to work on these specific tasks, versus just working from the slog to do lists where I can kind of like shift things around based on like how I’m feeling in the moment and not having to be confronted with the tasks that really require courage.

Sam Laura Brown 

And I think the To Do lists as well, like, not having that clear plan really breeds resentment in so many ways. Because when we don’t decide when it is going to be business time, or creating time, and when it’s not going to be even though we can change that throughout the week. It then is like when we’re at the job, ah, like this job is taking time away from my business, when we’re with our friends are like I love my friends. But also I should be doing some work or I should be creating that, with Ben puts every hour of the day, every minute of the day on the table for something that should be productive time or creating time. And then we’re using so much mental energy to be like, Well, should I do the artwork now? Or should I do it later? Should I do it now? Or should I do it later? Should I do it instead of just like, No, I’m deciding I’m not doing it now. And I’m going to do it at this point in time.

And I can change that if the mood strikes, so to speak, I can change and I think certain people will be more so in this like wanting to be, you know, following their mood and their PGSD as you look at like the moon cycles and different things like that. There are other people who are more structured. And I would say for myself, especially with like, having my daughter and things like that, that I just have these in my work hours like this is when I have someone to look after my daughter. And so these are the hours that I’m going to get things done. And I can make arrangements outside of that. But I’m less than now at this stage of my life, at least not really in this like I’ll do it when the mood strikes kind of thing. But you can be in that and be power planning. And it is better in so many ways for perfectionist to be doing that than from working from a to do list. So thank you so much for sharing that. There’s so many more things I want to chat about. But we will wrap this up. But is there anything else you wanted to mention? Or any words of encouragement with someone who is starting power planning anything that comes to mind?

Rachel Brown

Yeah, I would say just stick with it. Like give it you know, the full three month commitment is so important. And just know that it’s supposed to look like a hot mess for the month or two months or whatever. I know like in our coaching calls. Everyone new that comes in is like okay, I tried power plating once and it was like a complete disaster. And, you know, we’re all like, yep, aha, that’s exactly what’s supposed to happen. So just know that, like, that’s totally a part of the process. If you tried it once and you’re like, holy crap, like, I can’t fit any of this shit in and I don’t know why I’m getting the stuff done. It’s all a part of it. But if you stick with it, it’ll just bring so much clarity into your days and your weeks like I mean I just I’ve got And so much stuff done. And like, in a way that isn’t like, Oh, yes, I’m being so productive, like I’m, you know, just getting the amount done that I need to get done. And I feel good about it. And I’m having more time to spend doing other things, and with my friends and family and everything. So it really is a powerful tool if you stick with it.

Sam Laura Brown 

I think that thought of, which is very common, if like, it’s a complete disaster, and I didn’t know what to do, and everyone’s doing it better than me. It’s just a perfectionist thinking like, it’s an all or nothing like I need to either do it perfectly whatever that is that vague thing is that we should be doing, or it’s just a hot mess. And just knowing that even though that might be the experience in the first few weeks of I don’t really know what I’m doing here. And like this is maybe challenging, in some ways, are a complete disaster, as you said that that’s just our perfectionist mindset being in that all or nothing mode. And that is precisely why we do the power planning. And at the beginning, especially it is going to bring up that perfectionist thinking. And it’s a beautiful thing that it does that because that is how we’re then able to work on it rather than when we’re working from a to do list, whatever it is just kind of like operating silently in the background holding us back.

But we’re not able to actually spot what is going on. So I think that those words of encouragement are really important and knowing as well that even if it is a, it feels like a complete disaster, that you will still be making progress. And it’s not just like, cool, you do the three month commitment, and nothing bad’s gonna happen for three months, and then all click into place. Again, that’s an all or nothing mindset. Like as you said, like the first week you cried, you picked yourself back up, which is already a growth minded thing to do, you kept going. And then, you know, four to six weeks later, you were able to actually estimate how long it took you to do a piece of art. And I’m sure there were so many other things like clean rest, and all of that coming in.

So it’s not like, it’s just three months of hell, and then it’s just gonna click together, there will be so many wins along the way. And that’s part of why we have that weekly review, which is a third step Empower planning, so that we can get our brain to see what is working and what we have accomplished. Because our brains love to just dismiss all of our accomplishments and things that are working and just focus on like, here’s not what’s working, and here’s why it’s a complete disaster. So we’re retraining our brain, but know that your brain will probably default to the whose typical perfectionist thoughts. And that’s totally okay, but thank you so much, Rachel, would you mind sharing where everyone can find you your Instagram anywhere else? Yeah, where can we find you?

Rachel Brown

I am at show her work on Instagram. And if you’re interested in following along with some of my written words about my art journey, you can find that at show her work.com.

Sam Laura Brown 

Yeah, I was gonna say as well, or if you’re interested in buying Rachel’s art. Yes. Awesome. Awesome. Well, thank you so much, Rachel, I appreciate you. And yeah, I just want to acknowledge you for all the growth that I have witnessed. And I’m sure it’s only just a tip of the iceberg, because I’m not following you around day to day and seeing everything but just seeing your weekly review updates in your persistence log. And just seeing like, the way that you are able to be resourceful and solution, find and pick yourself back up and keep going and really super think at such a level that you weren’t in the beginning. It’s just incredible to see and all credit to you for that. So thank you so much for being an example of the growth mindset and for being on this interview as well.

Rachel Brown

Thanks, Sam. And thank you for creating PGSD and offer it to me. I’m so happy to be here.

I hope you enjoyed that interview with Rachel Brown. Just a reminder, I am teaching a bonus power planning workshop inside my program perfectionist getting shit done. It’s called your first Power Hour. And I’m going to be there with you live as you plan out the coming week. So you go to samlaurabrown.com/PGSD to sign up for the program, and you will get instant access, either to the link to join me live, or if you’re listening to this after 7pm on the 21st of April, and you will get instant access to the replay recording. So I can be there with you to plan out your week and support you through the steps of your Power Hour. Even though the steps are simple. It’s just so nice to have support there. And to just not have to do it alone, kind of like a workout class. We can just show up and you can trust it. If I get myself there, then I’m going to be able to get it complete. So samlaurabrown.com/PGSD. I will link it up for you in the show notes. And yeah, I hope you have a beautiful day and I’ll talk to you in the next episode.

Author: Sam Brown